Carrier Landings

[usb]

Adding Nick Blacks Tomcats to my carriers. I need the wet model info so they will top on the carrier' The dry touch and go or travel out over the water stop sometimes return. Have played with the toe brakes already. What do I need?

[Firebird]

The wet fde was never released. It maybe that the author, Mike Mac, has completed it but I don't know for sure and would have to leave that for him to say, but it may also have been intended to add things like a hook for carrier landings and this was also not done.

[fishlips]

Interesting!

[mikewmac]

Guys,

My NBAI F-14 wet FDE for use with a special NBAI F-14 wet model with functioning tail hook and catapult strop link is still being tweaked and won't be released until I also finish a retro USN carrier package that I am working on as time permits.

Sorry,

Mike M

[usb]

Thank you! I will be waiting if I can help in any way let me know

[gsnde]

You have many nice things on your plate, Mike

[mikewmac]

You have many nice things on your plate, Mike

Martin,

Yes, I've noticed that.

Unfortunately I'm buried at the moment with 4 other new AI FDE's and several novel AI packages in process.

Mike M

[gsnde]

Getting better and better....

[Janeway]

Adding Nick Blacks Tomcats to my carriers. I need the wet model info so they will top on the carrier' The dry touch and go or travel out over the water stop sometimes return. Have played with the toe brakes already. What do I need?

Lately, I have been experimenting with dozens of AI planes landing on a Carrier.
One thing I had to figure out was HOW to make ANY plane stop - more or less - over the arrestor wires, and/or a short stopping distance of several metres.
Anyway, I succeeded after discovering which parameters control the braking....
Now, I can alter ANY aircraft to land on the short flight deck of a Carrier.

If you wish to know how I did it....just PM me and I'll fill you in...

P.S. Not only do I have NBAI Tomcats landing successfully, but even F-4 Phantoms and A-5 Vigilantes, F-8 Crusaders, A-7 Corsairs and A-4 Skyhawks....

[gsnde]

Why not tell everybody?

[campbeme]

Why not tell everybody?

I agree the community grows with knowledge shared.

Mark

[usb]

Please, tell me more. have final really figured out the world of ai and the fifty plus carriers are my personal favorate with everyones beautiful artwork.I already have aircraft going from carrier to land to carrier and flying with them in a ww11 corsair or TOMCAT PLEASE TELL US MORE,

[Firebird]

The method used is known as setting up a 'super spoiler' but I don't want to spoil Janeway's thunder. i shall let him describe it.

The landing is the easy bit the difficult bit is the take off, which I think Janeway will also confirm.

[Janeway]

Read your comments.... but was not aware that Carriers were so popular !
Ok...will post a decent reply in the next day or two. Don't have time now..except for a few lines.

Firebird is right on ALL counts: Landing - using Superspoilers - is the easy part, but Landings were my first priority.
Take-offs ARE harder...and I've not tackled this hurdle yet
Most AI require a LONG take-off run...which needs to be shortened.
And if you know how to tweak planes for shorter take-offs, Firebird, you are most welcome to fill us all in...please...

[Janeway]

There are probably alternative ways to tweak aircraft for carrier-landings...
This is ONE of them.
The Best Carpenter makes the Fewest Chips [English proverb].
In other words, the fewer tweaks to an aircraft to achieve a desired result, the better.
Otherwise, you risk altering the plane's performance and stability....disastrously !!!

Two files are available for tweaking: ''Aircraft.cfg'' file and the ''Air'' file.
You can edit the Spoiler entry in the ''Aircraft.cfg'' to change the drag, but the ''Air'' File has what you want for Spoiler, Lift, Drag etc.
I advise leaving the ''Aircraft.cfg'' flie entry alone, and working with the ''Air'' file instead.
You can, of course, do as you like....but you'll get much better results editing the ''Air'' file.

Attached are two screenshots of the relevant parameters to tweak.

1. Open the ''Air'' file of the aircraft you have selected.
2. Scroll down to ''Rec 327'' and (if required) make it ''Spoiler Available=TRUE(1)''.
3. Scroll further to "Rec 337'' and (if required) make it ''Spoiler Auto Deploy Available=TRUE(1)''.
4. Go down to ''Rec 1101 - Primary Aerodynamics''.
5. Locate the variable ''Braking Strength - Max='' and (if required) make it ''-32768'' [Please note the MINUS sign]

FOR AN ARRESTOR-CABLE QUICK STOP SIMULATION, use Step 6 below:
6. A little further down is the ''Drag Coefficient'' section with FOUR variables.
Select the ''Drag Coefficient - Spoiler='' and make it ''-14562'' [Please note the MINUS sign]
THIS specific value should cause ANY aircraft to be arrested AS IF catching the Arrestor Cables with its Tail-hook.
A VERY quick deceleration.

FOR A SHORT LANDING-RUN SIMULATION, use Step 7 below:
7. A little further down is the ''Drag Coefficient'' section with FOUR variables.
Select the ''Drag Coefficient - Spoiler='' and make it ''1000'' [Please note the POSITIVE value, this time]

In the case of aircraft landing on runways, the above POSITIVE integer value can be altered to brake the plane BEFORE the end of the runway.
This is handy when AI are using a shorter runway than usual. Whether on a carrier flight-deck, or a land-based runway.
Experiment with THIS value until the plane brakes prior to reaching the end of the runway.
For example, by using higher & higher values: ''5000'' or ''10,000' or even ''20,000''.
Deceleration is controlled by this positive integer.
You could use NEGATIVE integers, if you wish. It's up to you.

In my experiments, altering just this ONE variable was sufficient to produce sufficient braking for ANY runway length.

Just ONE more thing: these tweaks focus on controlling the LANDING of an AI plane on a Carrier.
The TAKE-OFF behaviour of AI planes on a Carrier has NOT been addressed here...
That's another story! And I've not investigated this aspect yet.
Firebird pointed out it's a more difficult task to tweak Take-offs from Carriers...and I believe him !!
So anybody who knows...is welcome to enlighten us all.

[btaylo24]

Well done , glad you have cracked this....For take off you would think it has something to do with the acceleration parameters???
Just a guess.??

[campbeme]

Thanks for sharing this.

Mark

[mikewmac]

Graham Stanley developed the super spoiler for simulated AI carrier landings over 6 years ago and his technique simply required the entry into section 1101 of the air file and the changing of the Drag Coefficient - Spoiler = 2048=98 parameter to Drag Coefficient - Spoiler = 2048=-32767. This will allow for a simulated AI aircraft full stop landing on the arrestor wires.

This is the technique that I have been using for both my wet carrier aircraft and helicopter AI FDE's for many years and it works great. The remainder of the realism for an AI aircraft carrier landing is accomplished through the creation of an appropriate carrier AFCAD as shown in the screen shots below of Barry's and my simulated landing on the USS Nimitz.

Mike M

[Firebird]

The takeoff is a far more complicated thing and there is no simple procedure for achieving this.

In essence you have a vastly reduced take off run. The obviously simple solution is to either increase the lift or increase the power or a combination of both.
However, once you reflect on this there are a couple of issues here. With extra lift the aircraft will land unrealistically slowly and it will mess up the flying characteristics in other ways. The seemingly simple add a massive boost of power doesn't just stay with you on take off which means that if you are able to get the gear up before crashing through the gear limit speed the extra power will affect the rest of the flight not least slowing down enough to land.

The simple answer is a number of measures need to be taken to make it work realistically. Mike Mac has probably more experience than anybody in trying to produce wet fde's and it takes him a helluva time to try and get something to work.
Newer lighter carrier aircraft are easier to do, as they have shorter take off runs anyway so there is less of a job, but getting an F-4 thrown off a deck is a lot harder.

If it was easy we would already have released wet fde's. We hope for a spark of inspiration but in the mean time we have to keep plugging away.

[usb]

Being a little green, how do i or what do I open up the air file to change the required data?